LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

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LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:52 pm

Polygraph = JUNK SCIENCE
Here's an analysis of an NSA propaganda piece about the polygraph. The narrator does a great job showing that the NSA wants people to believe in JUNK SCIENCE. Why the government wants citizens to be stupid isn't actually stated, but most of us can figure out the answer to that question!
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:56 pm

POLYGRAPH RESULTS ARE NOT VALID
The only "experts" who believe in the validity of the polygraph are people who benefit financially from it. Other people who believe in the validity of the polygraph are simply duped. The polygraph is junk science and using the polygraph to detect lies is as backward and superstitious as dunking alleged witches back in the days of Salem. It looks scientific due to the fancy gizmos they use, but don't let the glitter and shine fool you. It's just junk when you get down to it!
:bubble:
Polygraphy has little credibility among scientists. Despite claims of 90-95% validity by polygraph advocates, and 95-100% by businesses providing polygraph services, critics maintain that rather than a "test", the method amounts to an inherently unstandardizable interrogation technique whose accuracy cannot be established. A 1997 survey of 421 psychologists estimated the test's average accuracy at about 61%, a little better than chance.

LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:34 pm

Penile plethysmograph
More junk science: The penile plethysmograph was discussed in the media during the sexual assault trial of basketball player Kobe Bryant before the case was dropped in 2004, because Colorado law would have required evaluation with this device following conviction. The device can't be used in court trials in the USA because:
In United States v. Powers the court excluded the penile plethysmograph test because it failed to qualify under Daubert's scientific validity prong for two reasons: the scientific literature does not regard the test as a valid diagnostic tool, and "a vast majority of incest offenders who do not admit their guilt, such as Powers, show a normal reaction to the test. The Government argues that such false negatives render the test unreliable."

According to Barker and Howell, penile plethysmography (PPG) does not meet the legal threshold for the guilt phase for the following reasons:

* No standardization
* Test results are not sufficiently accurate
* Results are subject to faking and voluntary control by test subjects
* High incidence of false negatives and false positives
* Results are open to interpretation

In other words it's junk science. While in theory it seems plausible that signs of physical arousal correlate well with determining a stimulus of arousal, in practice this just isn't the case.
LINKS:
http://www.skepdic.com/penilep.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_plethysmograph
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:50 am

There was a great thread on the polygraph last year before the old threads were all wiped out. Maybe those can be reposted. A lot of that information was quite pertinent to this thread. Also some of the information in that thread was quite interesting and of high quality.
PLEASE REPOST!!! :bow:
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:20 am

ShadyLady, I hear that the penile plethysmograph is also sometimes known as the "PETER READER"! :funny:
(That being said, yes, it is junk science, but some people are so desperate for a solution to one of their pet problems that they'll believe most anything!)
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:23 pm

pcslim wrote:There was a great thread on the polygraph last year before the old threads were all wiped out. Maybe those can be reposted. A lot of that information was quite pertinent to this thread. Also some of the information in that thread was quite interesting and of high quality.
PLEASE REPOST!!! :bow:

I think there may have been two threads. The following posts are from an old thread called "The Science of Lying." I think it contains a total of 13 posts (we'll find out I guess one way or the other). If you recall the name of any other threads let me know. It's a bit of a pain looking through the old database since it's all command line stuff!
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:28 pm

shadylady 2010-07-05:
I've had a longtime beef with charlatans who claim that they can tell when someone is lying. Whether we're talking about polygraph examiners or body language experts, they're all equally full of BS. Quite simply there is no reliable way of telling if someone is lying. Anyone who tells you different is either stupid or lying themselves!!! The absolute truth is that the polygraph is as reliable as flipping a coin in determining if someone is telling the truth or lying!
:mrgreen:
independent.co.uk wrote:Even using the most advanced in lie-detecting technology, identifying specific falsehoods can be a stretch. The past decade has seen a number of truth-telling innovations. Electroencephalograms monitor the electric activity of the brain. Thermal imaging records one's eye temperature (people's eyes, it has been suggested, heat up when they lie). MRI scans measure blood flow to the brain. But science has yet to offer a method of specifically isolating deceptive (as opposed to, say, nervous, cagey, or intensely focused) brain activity. Humans, when it comes to separating fact from fiction, are fairly hopeless.

"This is what makes it so easy for people to be successful in their lies," says Robert Feldman, Professor of Psychology at the University of Massachusetts. "Some people are good liars and some are bad, but they all use different signals. Unless you have known them for a long time, it's very difficult to tell if they are lying."

LINK: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-science-of-lying-why-the-truth-really-can-hurt-2018293.html
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:31 pm

desertrat 2010-07-05:
And just to prove your point, a guy named LIEberman wrote a book called: Never Be Lied to Again: How to Get the Truth in 5 Minutes or Less in Any Conversation or Situation. It seems that people like to BELIEVE that they can detect lies and LIEberman has taken advantage of these gullible people by writing a book promising that they can learn to do just that! The irony is unbelievable! In case you don't believe that such a book exists by an author with the name LIEberman no less, check it out!
LINK: http://www99.epinions.com/prices/Never_Be_Lied_to_Again_by_David_J_Lieberman
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:35 pm

pcslim 2010-07-05:
It's impossible to distinguish between anxiety caused by telling a lie and anxiety due to a fear of not being believed when telling the truth. The physiological response measured by the polygraph is identical in both situations and anyone who tells you otherwise is full of crap! The polygraph might be a good interrogation prop, but it doesn't really detect lies. It can intimidate suspects, but that's about it. If when faced with the intimidation of the polygraph a suspect sticks to his/her story, then the suspect is most likely telling the truth. End of story!
AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION wrote:The accuracy (i.e., validity) of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is theoretical: There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious. Also, there are few good studies that validate the ability of polygraph procedures to detect deception. As Dr. Saxe and Israeli psychologist Gershon Ben-Shahar (1999) note, "it may, in fact, be impossible to conduct a proper validity study." In real-world situations, it's very difficult to know what the truth is.

A particular problem is that polygraph research has not separated placebo-like effects (the subject's belief in the efficacy of the procedure) from the actual relationship between deception and their physiological responses. One reason that polygraph tests may appear to be accurate is that subjects who believe that the test works and that they can be detected may confess or will be very anxious when questioned. If this view is correct, the lie detector might be better called a fear detector.

LINK: http://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph.aspx
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:36 pm

MojaveMike 2010-07-05:
IMHO, the only way to "detect" lies is to discover factual inconsistencies. Any other method of detecting lies is going to be highly prone to error. People who think they can intuitively tell if someone is lying are lying to themselves. A lot of people believe that their prejudices have a rational basis and think that just because someone gives them "bad vibes" that the person must be a bad person. That's why so many members of racial minority groups wind up in prison. A lot of people stereotype individuals (based on race, marital status, gender, religious affiliation, etc.) and let their inaccurate beliefs override the actual evidence before them. You can't go with your gut feelings because emotional judgments are highly influenced by prejudices and stereotypes. That's why it's important to think logically when confronted with a situation where there might be deception and to concentrate on factual inconsistencies rather than try to rely on some kind of magical lie detection strategy!
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:39 pm

pcslim 2010-07-05:
Another pop psychology fad popular with media airheads is the idea of microexpressions. The idea that one can recognize and accurately interpret these microexpressions is so fraught with misconceptions and obvious logical errors that it would take several paragraphs to even begin to debunk this inanely stupid theory. However, a minimally intelligent person should be able to make quite a list of problems with this theory in less than five minutes of intelligent reflection. Those eager to believe in shortcuts and easy answers are quick to accept such obviously weak ideas! As stated earlier the bigger problem is that belief in these theories often mask underlying prejudices and result in an easy way of rationalizing away the conclusion that someone is guilty of something despite lack of real evidence.
A microexpression is a brief, involuntary facial expression shown on the face of humans according to emotions experienced. They usually occur in high-stakes situations, where people have something to lose or gain. Unlike regular facial expressions, it is difficult to fake microexpressions. Microexpressions express the seven universal emotions: disgust, anger, fear, sadness, happiness, surprise, and contempt. They can occur as fast as 1/25 of a secon

LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microexpression
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Re: LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS

Postby Anonymizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:42 pm

shadylady 2010-07-06:
pcslim wrote:Those eager to believe in shortcuts and easy answers are quick to accept such obviously weak ideas! As stated earlier the bigger problem is that belief in these theories often mask underlying prejudices and result in an easy way of rationalizing away the conclusion that someone is guilty of something despite lack of real evidence.

Exactly! All these "technologies" are just ways to excuse prejudicial behavior. That way the bigoted ignoramuses can feel good about treating someone unfairly. They can lay it off on the polygraph, microexpressions, or body language when all they're doing is trusting their hunches and ignoring the facts. It is far too common in this country for prosecutors to suppress evidence so they can score a conviction just because they are convinced that a person is guilty. These lie detection scams are nothing more than a tool they can use to convince others that their hunches are correct! It's pathetic, but a large portion of the population buys the BS shoveled out by those advocating these obviously flawed devices and methodologies!
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